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	<title>Comments on: Proceed with caution on red-light cameras</title>
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	<link>http://ellensmith.org/blog/2008/03/23/proceed-with-caution-on-red-light-cameras/</link>
	<description>I&#039;m Ellen Smith, member of the Oak Ridge City Council. Thank you for visiting my blog and reading my views on public and private life in and around Oak Ridge, Tennessee. This website is my own; content here does not represent the official policies or views of the City of Oak Ridge. To add your own comments, click on the topic title to open a comment box. To read posts about a particular topic, scroll down to &#34;Categories&#34; (in the sidebar) or use the &#34;Search&#34; box in the sidebar. Look under &#34;Archives&#34; to see collections of past posts organized by date.</description>
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		<title>By: MAJOR PROGRESS!!!!! &#171; Trina Baughn</title>
		<link>http://ellensmith.org/blog/2008/03/23/proceed-with-caution-on-red-light-cameras/comment-page-1/#comment-41193</link>
		<dc:creator>MAJOR PROGRESS!!!!! &#171; Trina Baughn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Feb 2012 15:38:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ellensmith.org/blog/2008/03/23/proceed-with-caution-on-red-light-cameras/#comment-41193</guid>
		<description>[...] I encourage all citizens to learn more and contribute to the dialogue that has already occurred here, here, and here. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] I encourage all citizens to learn more and contribute to the dialogue that has already occurred here, here, and here. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Jerry Kuhaida</title>
		<link>http://ellensmith.org/blog/2008/03/23/proceed-with-caution-on-red-light-cameras/comment-page-1/#comment-35922</link>
		<dc:creator>Jerry Kuhaida</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 Apr 2008 14:59:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ellensmith.org/blog/2008/03/23/proceed-with-caution-on-red-light-cameras/#comment-35922</guid>
		<description>Ellen:

I just recently rean a Letter to the Editor (Oak Ridger or Observer) where one of our brilliant Oak Ridger did calculations on vehicle speed, human reaction time, stopping distance, etc. His calculations were for Lovell Road and I-40 where he received a mailed fine. I had the same experience- checking to see if I could stop safely. I didn&#039;t see the fine, but the camera caught me.

For the Turnpike and Illinois Avenues, the traffic currently on those roads, especially 3 PM-6 PM and 5:30 AM to 9:00 Am, would create havoc. Most of those vehicles are in a hurry to get through Oak Ridge to a job.

I have traveled those streets for years and as I became aware of the various driving habits, I stop or speed. It depends on my reaction or time to react depending on what the car behind me is doing (speed, cell phone, fixing hair) and the possible cars approaching to my left, right, or turing in front of me. The option I have preffered is to use Tennessee Ave and Robertsville Road to bypass the Turnpike. If Oak Ridgers did this then we would have similar traffic light problems there. but then.

 Regardless of the source of any organization&#039;s estimates or values or formula, any calculations need to adress the reality of the traffic conditions at the traffic lights on those streets.
A primary consideration also needs to be the legality. Camera use is in the courts in a number of states and my guess is that a smart lawyer some where is going to get caught by the camera and successfuly challenge it. 

Whatever you decide, just make sure it&#039;s the right thing for all Oak Ridgers.

There aren&#039;t any traffic lights in Iraq, just traffic roundabouts.

Jerry Kuhaida</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ellen:</p>
<p>I just recently rean a Letter to the Editor (Oak Ridger or Observer) where one of our brilliant Oak Ridger did calculations on vehicle speed, human reaction time, stopping distance, etc. His calculations were for Lovell Road and I-40 where he received a mailed fine. I had the same experience- checking to see if I could stop safely. I didn&#8217;t see the fine, but the camera caught me.</p>
<p>For the Turnpike and Illinois Avenues, the traffic currently on those roads, especially 3 PM-6 PM and 5:30 AM to 9:00 Am, would create havoc. Most of those vehicles are in a hurry to get through Oak Ridge to a job.</p>
<p>I have traveled those streets for years and as I became aware of the various driving habits, I stop or speed. It depends on my reaction or time to react depending on what the car behind me is doing (speed, cell phone, fixing hair) and the possible cars approaching to my left, right, or turing in front of me. The option I have preffered is to use Tennessee Ave and Robertsville Road to bypass the Turnpike. If Oak Ridgers did this then we would have similar traffic light problems there. but then.</p>
<p> Regardless of the source of any organization&#8217;s estimates or values or formula, any calculations need to adress the reality of the traffic conditions at the traffic lights on those streets.<br />
A primary consideration also needs to be the legality. Camera use is in the courts in a number of states and my guess is that a smart lawyer some where is going to get caught by the camera and successfuly challenge it. </p>
<p>Whatever you decide, just make sure it&#8217;s the right thing for all Oak Ridgers.</p>
<p>There aren&#8217;t any traffic lights in Iraq, just traffic roundabouts.</p>
<p>Jerry Kuhaida</p>
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		<title>By: Tom Barron</title>
		<link>http://ellensmith.org/blog/2008/03/23/proceed-with-caution-on-red-light-cameras/comment-page-1/#comment-35853</link>
		<dc:creator>Tom Barron</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Apr 2008 15:15:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ellensmith.org/blog/2008/03/23/proceed-with-caution-on-red-light-cameras/#comment-35853</guid>
		<description>Hi, Ellen. Thank you for your thoughtful reflections and sharing on this issue. I&#039;d like to call your attention to these two items. The first is from security expert Bruce Schneier&#039;s blog:

http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2008/03/speeding_ticket.html

The second is from Techdirt:

http://techdirt.com/articles/20080410/011257809.shtml

Thanks again for your thoughtful and careful input to the running of our city.

Tom</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi, Ellen. Thank you for your thoughtful reflections and sharing on this issue. I&#8217;d like to call your attention to these two items. The first is from security expert Bruce Schneier&#8217;s blog:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2008/03/speeding_ticket.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2008/03/speeding_ticket.html</a></p>
<p>The second is from Techdirt:</p>
<p><a href="http://techdirt.com/articles/20080410/011257809.shtml" rel="nofollow">http://techdirt.com/articles/20080410/011257809.shtml</a></p>
<p>Thanks again for your thoughtful and careful input to the running of our city.</p>
<p>Tom</p>
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		<title>By: Ellen Smith</title>
		<link>http://ellensmith.org/blog/2008/03/23/proceed-with-caution-on-red-light-cameras/comment-page-1/#comment-35787</link>
		<dc:creator>Ellen Smith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 06 Apr 2008 16:13:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ellensmith.org/blog/2008/03/23/proceed-with-caution-on-red-light-cameras/#comment-35787</guid>
		<description>Thanks, CrackerNation. I fixed the error.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks, CrackerNation. I fixed the error.</p>
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		<title>By: CrackerNation</title>
		<link>http://ellensmith.org/blog/2008/03/23/proceed-with-caution-on-red-light-cameras/comment-page-1/#comment-35785</link>
		<dc:creator>CrackerNation</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 06 Apr 2008 13:52:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ellensmith.org/blog/2008/03/23/proceed-with-caution-on-red-light-cameras/#comment-35785</guid>
		<description>Ellen, you have a typo concerning Ray Evans&#039; post.  It was at http://www.AtomicCityTalk.com/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ellen, you have a typo concerning Ray Evans&#8217; post.  It was at <a href="http://www.AtomicCityTalk.com/" rel="nofollow">http://www.AtomicCityTalk.com/</a></p>
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		<title>By: Ray Kircher</title>
		<link>http://ellensmith.org/blog/2008/03/23/proceed-with-caution-on-red-light-cameras/comment-page-1/#comment-35712</link>
		<dc:creator>Ray Kircher</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Mar 2008 15:19:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ellensmith.org/blog/2008/03/23/proceed-with-caution-on-red-light-cameras/#comment-35712</guid>
		<description>Great collection of pros and cons.

I am leaning to the Knoxville case that these cameras are violating constitutional rights. Further I can see that safety in a city can be bought by individual citizens. If you have the money go ahead an run it, nothing else will happen after the fine.

I&#039;ve sat at red lights late in the evening, often wondering if the light would change. If I run it and the only thing there to catch me is a camera, is that breaking the law? No one else was there, just me and the red light.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great collection of pros and cons.</p>
<p>I am leaning to the Knoxville case that these cameras are violating constitutional rights. Further I can see that safety in a city can be bought by individual citizens. If you have the money go ahead an run it, nothing else will happen after the fine.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve sat at red lights late in the evening, often wondering if the light would change. If I run it and the only thing there to catch me is a camera, is that breaking the law? No one else was there, just me and the red light.</p>
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